Oh man you are in for a treat. This is a bonus episode we interview Noah Hutton from the film lapsus no was the director. And this film is kind of about the gig economy which fits perfect in our podcast. Here's some of the press notes real quick, an original sci fi world and timely political themes. The film imagines a gig economy organized around a boom in quantum computing, where predatory corporate forces threaten everyday workers tasked with the work needed to lay this new quantum infrastructure in rural areas. The work takes the form of laying cable through huge swaths of forests connecting massive cubic transistors. The film portrays human laborers who are forced to work without basic protections and are often robbed of their routes by automated cabling robots. These themes are central to some of our political discourse surrounding the 2020. Presidential campaign, raised by Andrew Yang Yang and others about the threat of automation and the issues faced by the gig economy laborers around the world. They're also a part of a growing awareness of the exploitation of workers subcontracted by tech giants like Amazon, kept on timers and forced to sacrifice basic physical comforts in order to compete for their paychecks. And there's a bunch more things that they written, and I've included those in the notes. But we had an incredible time talking to Noah, it was really cool to watch the movie. And if you're a gig worker, you're gonna, you're gonna feel some stuff like you are going to have emotion. watching this movie, what this character is going through, it was so well done and had it like I said, we had a fantastic time then with Noah, and watching the movie. So listen to the interview, the movie will be out February 12, on all video on demand platforms, and anywhere locally, you just have to check your theater if they're playing it. Obviously, with a lot of theaters being closed, some of them are doing it digitally where you can kind of rent it. But you can go to Amazon, iTunes, anywhere you get your video download. And I encourage you to do it. Because if you are a gig worker, you will definitely enjoy this movie. Thanks again guys for listening. Enjoy the interview.

It's fun. It's fun, though. It's fun. But I mean, again, being honest with you, though I know I'm transparent isn't this is the first movie I've been asked to do an interview with. But it's exciting, right? Because it's this the whole connection to the gig economy. It obviously makes sense. And it's it. Both me and Jason was very pleasantly surprised about the movie. Gotta say you guys did a great job. Oh, man.

Thank you. Appreciate that. Yeah, scrappy production. We did our best. Yeah,

I watched the trailer and I'm like, Okay. Okay. And I think it I think it helped, that we're all gig workers. So I could relate to a lot of that. So why don't you just why don't you just tell, tell us how you came up with the idea about this?

Yeah, well, the idea came from from a personal experience, I'm someone who hasn't ever worked specifically in the gig economy. But I've been an independent contractor for about a decade now. So I've been I've ever since I graduated from college, I made my living. By starting my own, you know, LLC and serving my services as a video editor and videographer at large for nonprofits, small companies, you know, getting it then I got into more commercial work, living in New York. And so, in doing that work, and kind of making my way for a decade, in that capacity, I started to feel some of the stresses of the independent contracting life. And I think that served as kind of a foundation for this for the subject matter. But the world of the film of lapsus definitely has more fantastical elements in it. That came in more than just the sci fi genre, seeing the quantum computing coming around the corner, and imagining a world where all this new infrastructure work might need to be done to service quantum computing. And so and then a lot of little elements you see in in our world today that are percolating, like delivery, automated delivery robots that are that companies are trying to roll out and literally roll out in different cities. And and then, you know, I guess the last element to, to mention, which is a little more of a far fetched connection, but I have a background and being really interested in brain science and neuroscience, I studied it as an undergraduate in college and I never really got into being a scientist, but it was kind of just Brain Stuff was always really interesting to me. And something about creating the world for this film, felt kind of like imagining the world of a brain and making all these connections all the time and the idea of cabling in the in lapsus, where these workers are constantly asked to new connections in this world, but each individual worker, if you think of like, each individual cell in the brain doesn't know what connections they're making, they're just sort of a cog in the overall machine. I guess that that was another kind of AI conceptual layer.

That's pretty cool. I must say I am. And I promised is not to get too deep into it. So I'm won't but I, I did the whole, the whole idea of the gig, it interests me a lot. And for me, I'm a person that I need to understand it and need to make sense to me. And and not it doesn't quite yet, but I'm getting there. I'm getting there. But I also understand that that's not really the important part of the movie. Obviously, it is, but but talk a little bit more about the interactions, you mentioned yourself, you brought up the whole, you know, the robots, and the cobblers and the people working and bringing the cables around. Right. Talk a little bit about, like, just just the aspect of that, from when you first see Ray, I guess out in the forest, and I don't want to talk too much, of course, about the movie itself. But just just this whole thing, how did you come up with that whole aspect of the community? And those kind of things just doesn't make sense that question?

Yeah, just sort of like what you want to you're asking a little bit more about the mechanics or keyboard and and the world and how I kind of

thought of the gig? I think I was but I'm not sure we need to go that deep.

We just mentioned a few a few things about that. That one of the things I was I was inspired by for this thinking about this gig is high speed trading? Well, you know, the way that high frequency trading on Wall Street works, a lot of it has to do with geographic proximity, and a terminal, you know, in lower Manhattan, exchanging information with a terminal and Trenton, New Jersey versus a terminal across the ocean, there's going to be a different frequency there. And I'm sure many people are aware that that's going to affect the volume of trades being done, and therefore even the price the traders are, are bidding at and so forth. So I was thinking of a world where that whole system has to run on quantum computing. And that was a there's a there's a bit of a leap here, because the thing about quantum computing is, it does require new infrastructure you do you need new fiber optic cables to connect quantum computing terminals, I don't think that high frequency trading is going to be replaced by quantum computing. And we're going to need to literally do this out in the woods. So this is where the, the the fantastical leap of science fiction comes in a little bit. Sure. If you'll just grant me, you know, if you watch the movie, and you you buy this world, the premise of it is enough to get out into the woods with this main character. And by that this story, places him there. And the whole point of the story really is meant to make you feel like Ray is an every man who he misses because he doesn't necessarily have to understand how the science works. No, we don't I hope as an audience, I hope you don't, you know, people don't feel it, they're missing something because they aren't. Okay. And so out in the forest. What these companies have essentially done is to enter automation into the woods, Sara Lee as a force that's going to be completing routes and, and phasing out humans. But I would, I would argue that in the film, The autumn, the force of automation, we can talk about maybe how this relates to the world where we're in today, the force of automation is more to encourage humans to work harder and faster. So in a way, it's it's meant to push the humans to sleep less and work harder. Because these little robots don't seem to me like they could take over the job completely from the humans there is still going to need a human workforce, to get them across bodies of water and through brush, etc. and then and then the you mentioned, the idea of community out there. And I think that that's something else I was interested in is the way in which many of these aspects of the of into independent contracting and gig economy life are billed also as sort of a lifestyle. And these apps have a like a community aspect to them. Because one of the unfortunate results, I think being an independent contractor is you can feel very atomized and cut off from the world. So you do see these companies trying to inject a community attention to their products.

Right. And I think you'd hit the nail on the head right there. We we as a group, so we call ourselves an entertainment group, I guess. And we're not connected directly to any other gig economies other than the fact that we do them right. You know, Uber and Lyft and flex I think we have a lot of ship shoppers we have we touch everything, but what we've been trying to do For now, I think close to three, maybe even three and a half years, we have tried to build a community not dependent on the gig, but the surrounding around the fact that we are all gig workers. Because exactly what you just said, No, it was exactly true. I, you know, I was finding myself when I was out driving, primarily weekends. It was it was just lonely, you just kind of you will yourself and in between the ride, you weren't, you weren't talking to anybody weren't doing anything, right. And so what we have now, we have a pretty active community, we'll be using apps in between rides to talk to each other when we you know, when we are working. And it's much more, it's just as much getting out there to make money as it is getting out there to spend time with your buddies. And so that brings that that other aspects. So that was very interesting how you brought that into to the movie and you see several plays, I think there's several key areas in the movie where there's really portraying that very well. And so I appreciated that. I thought that was really cool. Now, let me go back to touch on one thing that you mentioned that you said, You don't think that robots is going to take over? Like tomorrow or soon? And maybe not. But let me so let me try to draw a parallel to, obviously, Uber and Lyft. Right, right away, because the big fear there from a lot of workers is that maybe not tomorrow. But very soon, self driving cars is going to take over that job, right? It's not going to be the robot that's going to do it for us, it's going to be the self driving vehicle. And it's we know it's gonna come down at some point. But definitely, it'll be a and the fear there is it's going to be a system that's safer and better than because we remove the human factor from the driving. Right? Why wouldn't it be that for in this perspective?

I think I think it would, eventually I'm saying the level of automation that's portrayed in the film, okay. Is is almost like it almost feels like these are robots from the 90s there's a retro sci fi element to the world of lapses. Sure. And that's on purpose. It's just because I also feel like in relation to your question, self driving technology, it's uh, you know, self driving cars, that the promise has been there for over a decade now. We've been hearing non stop about it. And company after company has gotten close. And then they've had a big test or something, you know, something has, we've been like, it's right around the corner, every publication is trumping up some new rollout, and then some sort of awful tragedy happens. And you won't get heard there's an accident, you know, these cars still can, as far as I know, the AI can perfectly tell between sand or snow, what kind of surfaces? So, I mean, yeah, sure, eventually, that the technology might get there. I don't think we're there now. And I'm, I would even bet not there in the next five years. I'm moving pretty slowly. So the world of lapses is meant to more closely resemble what I've felt living the last 10 years of a world with AI promises right around the corner, but the technology is actually still much, you know, it's much inferior to the intelligence of the human worker. I want to create a sci fi world where robots could clearly do it better than humans, but they're not. Because once they are, I agree with you, the market forces will just push humans right out of the picture. Right? We need to be ready for that to happen. We need to think about what what what can those workers be doing if they're not doing that? Where will the jobs be?

So switching gears a little bit, I want to talk about you filming in the woods. I thought that was pretty cool. I you know, obviously you have really nice cameras tell me some of the challenges of filming. And I mean, it wasn't a set, we were straight up in the woods. And then one thing I thought in this is just totally random. But Ray had trouble getting out of that 10 every single time. It really caught my attention. I'm like he that's that poor guy. Every time he's trying to get out of that tent, he almost trips.

Yeah. I wrote this film for the actor, Dean imperio, who nobody will have heard of, because he's not been in any films before. Short Film a decade ago, but he's been a friend of mine. In New York. He came to New York as someone who wanted to be an actor, but he got more into playwright, the playwright world and writing for theater. And I just, you know, met him through a common friend and, and I could see that he had that quality still in him that charisma that he could hold, you know, a leading man. He could be a leading man of a film. So I thought when I was writing lapses, he'd be perfect for this role. That kind of every man, blue collar worker who comes in and and sort of the world is just like Passing him by. So so as you know, he, he's a guy who doesn't camp. And, you know, I have camped a few times, but Dean has never camped. And so bringing him out into the forest, I would often like set up a scene and have him get in, help him get inside a tent. And then just ask him to get out while we were rolling. And that would be how many of those are just, you know, natural captures of Dean trying to figure out tense, okay. How to like build a tent, which is which which is in the film, too.

Yeah.

Interesting. We got totally frustrated with that. So that was that was like, almost documentary. Yeah.

So tell me, did you have any challenges filming in the woods at all? Like was? Or was it just was it pretty easy?

It was tough, because it's summer. And there's, you know, it's hot. There's mosquitoes. It's, it's low budget, indie filmmaking. So people are doing more individually than on a bigger set where you have, you know, more PhDs and stuff helping with every department. So everyone's taking out a little bit more work. And pushing themselves. And, you know, we made sure a lot of indie films will go six days a week and take one day off to try to, because if you're especially if you're bringing people out to a location, yeah, putting them up at a hotel or something. So we were putting people up at a local motel, shooting a lot of this in state park land and also some private property. We just because of the quality of work was so hard. We did do two day weekends, which I think was important for morale, and, you know, physical recovery. So I think that helped but you know, shooting in the woods is is that in retrospect, it felt like we were on at camp or something like it always, always, like close a little bit more in your mind. Yeah, retrospect, but it was it was definitely had its challenges. Interesting.

I thought I read somewhere that you guys did it in a in a, was it surprising? 29 days or something like that? shooting was like very low?

Right? Good. 26 days?

26 days? It was just amazing. Yeah. And I gotta tell you, I did not think that it felt to me, like a low budget movie. You know? It was it was it was very, very well done. I was ssmu. Yeah, it was just like any other movie? I did. I've seen the movie. So. And I thought that that the casting was super strong.

Good. Well, that's all you can that's casting is, to a certain extent, the cheapest thing you can do, because you it's really just a decision you have to make of who to do the part. Right. But then, you know, if you certainly if you're casting actors who will need to be paid a lot than it stops being cheap very quickly. But we were working with a cast of, you know, some people who have been in some some high profile projects, but certainly no household names, no stars, per se. So there was a certain humility about the whole production. We were all in it together, which is a nice, you want to try to engender that, you know, that that ethos on set? And we definitely had that going for us.

But I think that works very well, as well with the fact that it ties into the gig economy, right? Because I think it wouldn't have been the same if you had taken three or four very, very big names, and throw them into the gig economy. I don't think that would have worked.

Yeah, I don't think I don't know if we believe it. I mean, I saw there was that film about Uber? A couple years ago. Yeah. Which still is stupid. I never watched it. Stupid. Yeah, I saw it. I couldn't watch the rest. I gotta see, that's when you know, if you if you're an actual gig worker couldn't watch stupid. rails on that show? It was just, yeah, no, it was stupid.

I'm sorry.

Well, what one of the things you brought up emotion with me when I was watching it, because some of the frustrations that Ray was having, I'm like, I have those frustrations, like trying to get ahead, trying to do more constantly hustling and hustling. And so I had frustrations and I I was like, I liked his attitude of like, I'm gonna get this done. Although with him and I, I don't remember the female leads name, but I, I kind of wanted, like a relationship to happen. I was kind of like, okay, where are they gonna, like, get together? I don't know why, but that's how you know, it's pretty good. Because I was like, creating my own stories as I've watched.

I think without saying more, I don't think that that's a little open ended.

Well, I like kind of delicious tension where where people are, you know, they're on the cusp of friendship or something more and like, you know, something in the air. There's that scene. There's a scene where they're in the tent together. Yeah. And you know, it's kind of like, well, I guess I'll go back to my tent. I don't think I think that's like To me, that's like people kind of ships passing In the night when you meet like another Freelancer or something and yeah, you know, share notes for a while, at like a bar or something. And it's like, well, we I guess we're just talking about work. Okay, we're going on. Yeah. And a lot of that lifestyle, I think is sort of like ships in the night.

I actually think you, you chose completely right there because it was so easy to take it to the next step. And you decided not to. And so I thought that was great. That was that was that was boiler alert, there's,

they don't get together.

I was worried I was gonna give something away. But I mean, it really has to do with the movie. But

I want to, I don't want to say too much. So we are in a medium sized market here in West Michigan, and probably shielded a little bit from key comedy in like very, very large cities. So I think there's a lot of things that we don't necessarily see. But I also know and have read a lot about a lot of the things that people do do on the different platforms. I am, of course talking about the whole, safe, not safety, but the whole like aspect of misusing the platform that cable, and you could talk to him about that, of course, as well. The whole the whole concept as to how Ray gets the medallion, which obviously is not completely kosher. And that kind of stuff. What do you think, in your personal opinion, you know, this is this is all, you know, difficult. And of course, it's hard to say how do we how do we make things more safe, but what could you have done? What could Kaypro have done? To prevent some of those things? And what could we do in the future? in all things economy to to make make sure that these different platforms don't get misused? Do you think?

Yeah, that's a? That's a interesting question. Because I think what I was what I was thinking of, more so than the way in which any particular platform is has users sign up and create IDs and everything, I was actually thinking more of the New York City, taxi driving medallion system. Oh, which, if you if you're familiar is like the process of getting a medallion to be in New York City cab driver is arduous, very expensive, and, like the medallion itself is becomes like a prized commodity that gets handed down through generations, to relatives when someone you know, retires because it's that valuable. There's a limited amount of them, you know, so I was thinking of what if what if a gig economy company had adopted more of a medallion type system because this labor is so sought after they had to, they had to somehow winnow it down. Now, I don't think that that's the way in which Uber or any other platform right now works, if you go through their qualifications, you can have a driver now you might you might be in an area, a rural area where you don't, you know, there's not a lot of rides available. That might be the challenge you're up against. But platform security right now in the gig economy. I don't I'm not I'm not aware of people, like misusing, you know, I know, like, but what I was thinking about is, there are there are services like grub hub, I've read about where you if you don't take a certain if you don't accept a certain amount of low dollar orders, like if you're not taking enough $3 ORS, you're not going to get to that next tier of orders, you're not going to see those $12 orders or whatever. And, and maybe you guys are familiar with that. Yeah,

I've definitely heard about that. I don't know if I've experienced it myself. But I think it's more of a rumor kind of thing, but Okay,

well, I Sir, I've never worked for grub hub. So I'm just reading. Yeah, this is maybe this is speculative journalism, but for me, you know, my as a as a filmmaker than I, my mind runs with that. So yeah, I but I was thinking of like that. That's the kind of way that these platforms could be misused. If someone transferred their ID, their account, someone else. And they've, they've put in that time to get to those high dollar orders, and they give it to a new newbie, and all of a sudden, that has, you know, top tier orders, but they haven't put any time. That's a similar to the world of lapses.

Correct. Correct. And that is, that's definitely a way that that that I mean, it's not confirmed as to whether or not any of the platforms in today's world is is utilizing that kind of methodology. But I mean, I'm I'm sure it's probably going on well, that it would be difficult to to think that it wasn't so I think that was that's a very interesting aspect there. I was more thinking about the whole mean so yes, the medallion being handed over, I get that that's all stuff but all of a sudden, he he's realizing ray is realizing that this medallion isn't reset. And there's a lot of things on this medallion that is not it's not like it's he feels like it's not like he's supposed to and some of his own internal No warnings are going off, right? He, he starts to feel good about it. And he's obviously out there. And everybody else is looking at him funny and that kind of stuff. And he's just he notices that things isn't. Right. Right. And so I think that brings up an interesting security aspect, safety aspect as well, about the whole gig economy, because of course, two things has to be there, right. Which I think your, your movie touches perfectly on both of them. But the whole safety about the worker, but also safety about the product. And so that, you know, I think, though that that's interesting. And but again, I just wanted to touch on those, and I thought it was pretty cool. How you had both of those included in the movie as well.

Yeah, I guess I guess one. One other aspect of that is, and I'd be curious, your take on this is, is what I was just talking about the tears of of orders or rides in terms of the amount you're being paid for them. But what about your What about the rating systems for the worker themselves? I

mean, you part of the labor, you put in the time you put in as a gig worker right as to get higher ratings. Yep. If that identity is transferred, that's a bit of an abuse, because that's not exactly honest. The new worker, org your identity. So I mean, have you ever heard of people doing that of sort of like handing off their, their rating systems to someone else, what they've been talking about people using other people's phones, right, and so, and the whole, the whole thing, you know, both Uber and Lyft, and a lot of the other ones, they all work with this whole background check. And so a constant thing is that people are misusing other people's accounts to get around the background check to to be that and how important it is that for the writer to make sure that the driver is in fact, who the driver is supposed to be, before they get into the car. So that whole aspect there being the safety about both the driver and also obviously, in this case, the rider so that yes, but yeah, you're right, the whole rating system ties into that very, very closely as

well.

So absolutely. One

of the things that towards the end, they were kind of unionizing. And did you just pull that from general unions are kind of all the talk about 85 in California, and you know, how they're kind of shifting the model of, you know, providing health care and and those kinds of things. Is that where you pulled that from? Or are you just in general, you know, people get pissed. I mean, there's, there's a, I think it's in it, maybe Atlanta or somewhere, but Amazon employees are starting to put a union together because of the mistreatment at the facility. So I'm just wondering where you pulled that idea from and how Yeah, I think that's an

Alabama right now Alabama. Okay. But I've been reading both about, you know, a lot of organizing going on and being forwarded for it for Amazon workers, which we'll see what happens with this one. Yeah. But I but certainly, you mentioned California, I've been following California closely, because it's it's not only where so many of these apps originated, but where a lot of await the vanguard of these struggles continues to take place. Obviously prop 22 you know, I actually watched you guys talking about prop 22. A bit. Oh, I watched your episode on that. It was an interesting discussion. I appreciate it. I don't think and i until Yeah, I was absolutely at five you mentioned. I, you know, I've been just been interested to see how union. unionizing would fit in with the gig economy. Because it's been, it's been difficult. You know, in New York, we have something called the freelancers union. And it's not exactly a union. There's it's sort of like union and name only. And and it's it's a way basically to just have a health care market where people can poke around on Obamacare through another web portal. Yes, that does. It's like, it's like many of these things are just sort of shells of an idea of what a union should be. I, I definitely pulled that from, you know, a bunch of different places, but there's just the struggle kind of continues. I'd be curious, your guys's take on on that, especially, you know, you're not necessarily in an, you know, urban setting. A lot of these struggles are going on more in cities and stuff. So you know, I just saw the other day that instacart has just slashed 1900 jobs and a lot and all of their union jobs, no slash. And so I think what also happens is companies allow some unionizing to take place, and then we'll just cut that sector of the labor force off and open it back up to non unionized folks. So right, it's it's tough out there. Ai companies don't want it, you know, so I, I think, I don't know if it will require more top down regulation or I'm curious, your thoughts, your thoughts on that?

My personal thought is I think if there is more top down regulation, I think the gig economy is going to be destroyed because For him to me, but I also understand this is very difficult, it's very different, right? I think there's a lot of people out there that get into the gig economy thinking that that's gonna be the new nine to five. And I just don't think that's what gig economy is about. I mean, we talk a lot about having a lot of baskets, that's kind of how we refer to it, you want to make sure that you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, whatever I did, and don't depend on just one platform. If you are a gig worker, and you want to do that, that's great. But then make sure you have a lot of different ways of making that money that you need to do every week, or every month, whatever it is. And for us, I think both me and Jason are very close on this. We want people that who really didn't want the whole 85. And we were for the proposal 22 so that we can continue being contract workers, and we can continue having the freedom that that gives us. But, but we also may be maybe a little bit shielded here in in a smaller market, but we don't have to do those things. You but on the other side, let me turn you around and ask your opinion about that. Coming and having stayed longer in a bigger city? What, what do you think? I mean, last time I was in Chicago, I looked around and all I saw was Uber and Lyft vehicles everywhere, right? That's the only thing you see cars around, there's so many of them. So I understand that there's a lot of people doing that. And I think it's a different thing in the bigger cities and in the smaller cities.

Right? I I hear you on on some kind of some kind of draconian top down regulation could shatter, you know, the the way in which the free the gig economy plugs in the gaps right now that are out there in the market, and, you know, offer services that people actually genuinely want. But I you know, something about prop 22 that I was interested in is that it seems like it's it's actually restricting people to be using one app at a time. I don't know if you're familiar with that. But one of the restrictions is you can't double dip and have as many baskets as you know, your your analogy about having a basket. So all of a sudden, you have to stick with one app, you're you're stuck with the jobs that come your way, come your way, and you're not paid for that idle time. So you're paid for like your engaged time they call it right. So right? Um, you know, is it? Is it really accommodating that? Or is it is it squeezing people, so they have to work like 50 hour work weeks now to get to minimum wage, and that that workweek is made only of their engaged time. So unlike like a Starbucks employee who's paid for that full eight hour day, you know, the day they're behind, this worker is only paid for when they're actually getting a ride. So I'm worried about something like prop 22. For those reasons, I understand the reason to support it, because it feels like it's the only way forward for hat providing this kind of work. And then you'll get squeezed out in the market if those measures are not put into place. But my solution would be more along the lines of making these companies more worker owned. And I think I think part of the problem is that there's there's such a huge disparity in executive pay to worker pay in so many sectors of, you know, the American corporate structure, but especially gig economy, that if you had models where you had more worker ownership of companies, I think you would see an evening out of affording more of a safety net to workers, not having them have to get to some kind of 25 hour minimum or something per week to get those benefits, but an immediate safety net upon working for that company. So I just think there's so many things that would be different if these companies were owned more by workers, you and the fact that they're not and you have CEOs running away with so much money, right. It's that those were some are worse, some of the abuses come in for me.

And totally true. totally true. And, and you mentioned and that is obviously also the constant talk and a constant struggle about and all the rates continually going down where you are. So absolutely, yeah, there's definitely that that's a different side of it as well.

Well, yeah, just as we're wrapping up here, my whole point with that is like the money's got to come from somewhere. If you want health care, these people, these workers act like, you know, they're, it's just gonna be the best thing in the world if they have all this stuff. And but where's the money gonna come from like, and you're gonna get limited hours. So we're, we're, I feel like I let me use whatever app I want. And I'll go out, do my own hustle, and I'll worry about my other stuff on my email. You know, my benefits by myself. I don't, I don't need the company to provide them. That's just my two cents on that.

Yeah, but I'm saying I'm saying Jason, you should be paid more for that time. Because then you wouldn't, you wouldn't have to hustle so much to get some basic provisions like how

and you know, We've talked about that what I like to get paid more. That is the one thing that I think should happen. I think customers would be willing to pay a little bit more for the service if the drivers got if the drivers got that money, not if it just goes in the pocket. That's right. But that's the only thing I agree with. I would like to get paid a little bit more. But like all the other stuff, like the sick pay and whatever, I don't need any of that stuff.

So maybe you can do you can think about a situation where there's some top down regulation for that, maybe,

yeah,

for sure. For sure. Well, no, I won't take up any more of your time. This has been a it's been a pleasure. Honestly, I was really excited to actually watch the movie this morning. I wanted as fresh in my head as I could. So I we definitely appreciate the opportunity. When is this gonna be out? And how can people see it?

It's gonna be out on February 12. On every major VOD platform, iTunes, Amazon. Also like it's available through local theaters virtually so if you're if you're inclined to look if on the film's website, you can see all the film the theaters, it's playing at virtually, okay, that can support your local theater. A lot of independent you know, art house theaters around the country are playing it virtually again in our in our COVID times. There's no in person, my screenings, but it's a way to help your your struggling local movie theater. So but yeah, people can find it on their major VOD platforms where they stream stuff from February 12. And let me just say, thank you guys for having me on. It's been really fun to talk to you about this stuff. And it was a lot of the source material for the film. So it's great to engage with people who, who live and breathe it. Well,

thanks again, Noah. How can people find you online?

I'm on Twitter at at Noah underscore Hutton and Instagram. Also and my website's no heightened calm,

okay. Any other projects in the in the you're working on or you're just like taking a break now?

Not in Great Britain. My next script, oh, love to get back on soon. And that takes a look at the world of advertising. And it's something that somewhere I've done a lot of work. So I'm trying to explore that next. And then I've got a documentary coming out about neuroscience. And I've been working on for 10 years I've been going I've been shooting a little bit for every year for 10 years, and it's coming out it's finally done. And that'll be out sometime this year. So that's on my website. Check that out. We call it in silico. And

it will be able you'll be able to find both the links down below.

All right. Oh, well, thank you very much for the opportunity and you have a great evening.

All right, YouTube. Jason. Thanks a lot.

Thanks, guys.

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